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Unfairly voided question.

The following question was unfairly voided : http://www.hubdub.com/m7685/Will_the_... .

The following was the reason given : "Voided Today 12:29am PST by andrew: Not one of the indices we follow "

But this index has been followed and settled on hubdub before :

http://www.hubdub.com/e/Market/Will_t...

I asked where my question was prohibited and I received the following message :

"Hi epicur,
Section 2.3.4, rule 3
http://www.hubdub.com/public/goodques...

Regards,
Andrew "

Well the above cited rule is :

"Questions can be made about the major indexes (Dow Jones Industrial Average, NASDAQ Composite Index, FTSE 100, DAX, BSE, Nikkei and Hang Seng) but should not be made about the performance of individual stocks"

My response to this rule being applied to my question was :

"First off, that rule says what questions can be made about. It does not
explicitly exclude this major index. In addition, there are many other
indices that aren't on that list that are being regularly allowed i.e. CAC
40, MIBTEL and S&P 500. What are you going to do about those questions?"

Hubdubbers, please tell me what you think of this situation. Why is my question excluded by this rule while all these others are allowed to stand? Is this a way to try to penalize success so all may compete more readily?
 
sad I’m frustrated

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  • Inappropriate?
    Given that additional indices don't have liquidity it is too easy for users to use them to easily buy money. That spoils the challenge. The CAC, MIBTEL and S&P questions have got through but we are going to be stricter on these in future. We actually get more users emailing us requesting we restrict indices rather than adding them.

    When our user base grows we will open up the indices that users can predict on.

    Sorry about your question being voided.
  • epicur
  • epicur
    Inappropriate?
    I agree that they are easy to gain money on. I really don't like these sort of questions. I only started wagering on them in an attempt to keep up with "orlin" since that is where much of their profits came from. Most of my profits are not only from the business category.

    But as the rule is written, it does not exclude what I wrote a question on. I have no problem with you desired goal now that I'm aware of it, but you should amend/rewrite the rule (at least until your user base grows - as you mentioned). It does not state what you have applied it as. You should explicitly list what indices are allowed.
  • Inappropriate?
    It is a fair point.

    We have been planning to update the business rules for a while and a couple of events have meant that we are thinking of making some larger changes to the category.

    We will propose the changes on Thursday or Friday of this week via Get Satisfaction.
  • Chatarra
    Inappropriate?
    I am probably late with my remarks, but I just woke up to find that one of my few winning bets overnight has been voided. What I do not understand from the previous thread, is if certain indices are going to be banned to promote user growth, then why are there contingency plans to reinstate certain indices in the future after user growth has reached a certain goal?

    Nigel, I am glad I am not in your shoes, as I think your job would be very difficult. You poor guys are stuck in the middle trying to make everybody happy. Somebody is always going to be upset over a decision made at Hubdub Central.

    In regards to this particular index, I feel it should be allowed - or not disqualified simply because it is new(s) or unfamiliar. Most news stories begin as something we may not be familiar with. I once heard a long time ago, that if a person were to read the newspaper each day, after a point of 20 years the education gained would be equal to a 4 year college degree.

    I don't object to following the rules as set forth by the admin, as long as I am aware of them in advance. But it is hard to be happy with a winning bet being voided at what seems like a last minute decision on the part of the Administrators.
     
    sad I’m frustrated
  • Inappropriate?
    The rule as stands is silly. Why can't there be 3 markets for Europe (and 3 for US or the Americas) to match the 3 for Asia.

    Between the STI void and the Nikkei void I lost about 20K in profits, and wasted hours following those markets. The Nikkei void was worse than the STI in my opinion, because the normal procedure for questions with overly late suspend times (the reason for that void) is to settle them at the proper suspend time and void all later wagers. But both voids penalized the participants

    @epicur: I think it was petulant of you to get my world markets question voided because of your question being voided. Between designing and updating it, I have spent hours on that question, while you spent seconds coming up with yours.
     
    sad
  • jimbo
    Inappropriate?
    Epicur, Your looking SOOO good... I can't take you seriously until you change your image you PHOTOGENIC ANIMAL! I've got "master and servant" playing on the stereo and I'm hiding my naughty bits between my legs in front of a cam. Well, not really. Anyway.. umm.. Hubdub isn't 24.7 yet.. there are Indian monitoring centres for this... until they hire a centre dealing in this area (who exist) then I don't see any reason why they should support 24.7 on a question.

    If there is a problem, there is an Indian solution.
     
    happy I’m excited about seeing Epicur with a gold cross around his neck and a Tequila Sunrise in his hot little hands
  • Orlin
    Inappropriate?
    First.
    @Epicur - I suppose this is not your real name. But Orlin is my true, real name since I was born, so the quotation marks are a little bit offensive for me.
    Otherwise, I sympathize to you and to your expressed opinions.
    Second, and more important.
    I confess that I had missed the cited rule and had made a number of questions on "restricted" indices until I received a warning from the appropriate editor. Because of other reasons, I stoped create not only indices questions, but questions at all. [Not that anybody mentionned that and regret this.]
    I disagree with the reason for the restriction on the indices. Every index is volatile and its outcome is always unpredictible. I had lost many H$ on many occasions when the trend has suddenly and in moments changed.
    This is applicable on all of the restricted indices and I do not see any difference between them and the allowed. As InfernalMachine one more time wrightfully remarked, you need to follow strictly the trend, the news, everything which can influence the trend. This is not easy and is time-consuming.
    I read between the lines, that there is an opposition against the easy H$-making.
    This is nonsense. Questions are open, everybody is welcome to participate and try his chances and abilities, come on, make your easy H$ and climb the leaderboard.
    If we follow the same logic, we must restrict not only the indices, but in the first place the good part of the sport questions and especially american sport questions. We must stipulate - only the NBA final and by no means other matches. Only the MLB finals and nothing more. Only the matches between the big four in England and nothing outside that. And so on.
    Particulary, should be excluded the 'strange' to say the least questions which became so popular recently, having nothing common with any news, obviously for lack of news.
    Et caetera.
    I think, this game have one of its greatest senses in the virtual possibility of gain. It is bad if someone gain more than me? Than ban him and ban the ways he earn its H$.
    Finally we will ban everything and will play only on when I will cut my hair and when will be born my next child.
    Very, very interesting.
    Restrictions are bad. As well as write rules which we don't apply in spite of the admins discretion. Or we have rules and they are obligatory or we have editors' discretion and we don't need rules.
    Once more, sorry for my bad english and for the long text.
     
    indifferent I’m indifferent
  • Orlin
    Inappropriate?
    P.S. Today's Nikkei question was wrongfully voided, in contradiction with the rules and the established precedents, just as InfernalMachine said. I wrote my objections in the contact form. I'm sure you can easily guess if I had a reply or something was done on that.
     
    indifferent I’m indifferent
  • epicur
    Inappropriate?
    Hello infernal machine. I apologize that I targeted your well written question (along with other peoples' well written questions) in order to make a larger point. It was an issue of fairness since the alleged rule hubdub cited to penalize me (to the tune of about 12000 in hubdub profits) was not being enforced evenly with everyone. In addition, I wanted maximum recognition of the unfairness of the situation. In order to achieve this, I needed the attention of as much of the hubdub community as I could acquire. You were the unfortunate collateral damage of the situation and I am sorry. I obviously didn't lose as much time in the creation of the question as you did, but I did lose hours following the market. Again, sorry for my partial responsibility in your void. The bulk of the responsibility lies with hubdub administrators. They shouldn't suddenly change interpretation and enforcement of policy without warning. They gave Orin the courtesy of an email notice. I received no such notice. Precedent had been established by what they had and were still allowing. They need to give notice before making changes. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate what they have created with this website. But the message I keep trying to send them, seems to repeatedly be getting lost. The last time they did something like this was when they suddenly sprung resetting our hubdub dollars. They need to communicate before they do things like that and this. Ask for feedback of all involved. No sudden unilateral changes unless they want to ostracize users.

    Jumbo, glad you like the photo. I sent hubdub a good number more photos in response to their advertising request a few weeks ago. You would like those also. The one you referenced here is part of a much larger, more interesting photo in which I'm holding a Japanese World War II military officers sword. Having said this, I don't really care whether you take me seriously or not though. I let other things speak for me. Your comments were a mildly entertaining distraction though from the point of the post in the forum.

    Hi Orlin. I hope you understand, I meant no disrespect. You can't expect people to know whether you screen moniker is your name or not. If my memory serves me right, the quotation marks are an English composition rule. I put them around words in a sentence that are not meant to be read in the context of the surrounding words. That is all. I'm sorry for the offense, it was not intended. You mention missing the cited rule, but it is not really a rule as they are now using it. As the rule is written, it appears to be more about not writing questions about individual stocks then listing the only acceptable indices. The list of major indices is arbitrary. It leaves out the S&P 500, CAC 40 and MIBTEL. The "rule" appears to be just citing examples of major indices. It does indicate you should only write about those indices. They need to change the "rule" if that is what they really desire. And that is the problem I had with the selective enforcement and interpretation. With regard to the rest of your comments, you are preaching to the choir. I totally agree. The difference I may have with you is that I don't like gaining hubdub dollars with indices questions. I felt I had to predict on them just to keep up. I prefer the questions about news stories. The indices game was more like day trading.
  • Inappropriate?
    Hi Guys

    I can see there's a lot of frustration here, and can totally understand it. As far as I can see, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there are the following problems:

    1. The rule cited to you epicur doesn't specifically exclude all other indices. - I will change that. To be clear though, in Section 2.1 of the Rules, it does state: "No user-created in-running questions are allowed apart from on the DJIA, NASDAQ, FTSE 100, DAX, BSE, Nikkei and Hang Seng"

    2. We suddenly decided to "get tough" on banning these excluded indices without prior warning - we should have communicated our intentions beforehand - please accept our apologies. Lesson learned.

    3. The Nikkei question was voided rather than settled with an early cut off - again, this shouldn't have happened. Sorry. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it as we cannot "unvoid", but I will flag it to all the Category Editors as another Lesson Learned.

    I think I have captured the main issues, but please shout if I've missed something.

    Best wishes and Happy Hubdubbing

    Lesley.
     
    silly I’m still quite traumatised by jimbo's post!
  • Inappropriate?
    Thanks epicur for your response. I understand your frustration, and agree about the missing (excluded) exchanges.
     
    happy I’m appeased
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