When should questions related to the stock market (DJIA, NASDAQ, etc.) close?
When should questions related to the stock market (DJIA, NASDAQ, etc.) close? Some have complained that these question close too late, that people are jumping in at the last minute when the outcomes have pretty well been decided...so when should these markets close?
There are those who can, and do, track developments during the trading day, and perhaps they should benefit from their efforts . . . but then there are others who can't and are trying to predict these markets before they even open.
So how should we handle this? Have different markets closing at different times? Use the stock market questions as an "in-play" situation?
Ideas??
There are those who can, and do, track developments during the trading day, and perhaps they should benefit from their efforts . . . but then there are others who can't and are trying to predict these markets before they even open.
So how should we handle this? Have different markets closing at different times? Use the stock market questions as an "in-play" situation?
Ideas??
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Inappropriate?I like things as is. Once you have in-play questions, you are going to have people who feel that this is not straight prediction. They are right, to some extent. People who follow the action have much more information to guide their choices than those who don't. But this is potentially true of most questions on hubdub. Many markets shift between creation and suspension, and those who follow the news have a marked advantage over those who bet it and forget it. Even a Sports question about a particular game which suspends before the game starts can be affected by news of injuries to important players.
So, the "purists" do not stand on as solid ground as they may think they do when they criticise in-play as not being pure prediction.
I think that the in-play markets are the most exciting and fun part of Hubdub, and that there is a large community who play the game daily because of these markets. They're here to stay, and the overall game would be diminished if they weren't.
When we come to the issue of when to close these suckers, I personally don't think that pushing back the suspend time really helps all that much, and it does restrain betting activity considerably, or else cause disastrous losses for some players. The reason for tinkering with the suspend time is either given as "making it more about predictions", or "stopping people from making too much money".
If you push the suspend time back and back until you reach Dow open at 9:30am ET, you will progressively reduce activity on these markets, because even a hour before closing it amounts to a guess (or as some call it, a lottery). The fact is, the closing figure of the Dow is in itself not that interesting an issue (except maybe up or down by how many percent). What gives these markets their actual interest is in predicting, in meaningful steps of time, where is the market going from here. If you overly interfere with this, you just make the market too scary to play heavily.
The issue of excess profits being made in the last few minutes before suspension is perhaps a much more pressing issue. But to some degree we may be overestimating the percent profit that can be made at that time. As an option goes up toward 100%, the percent profit becomes really low. Also, the real gains people make in these markets is when they choose a low percent option just before it becomes the most likely (so some high gains are offset by high losses).
The exception to this is the people who put $10,000 bets (repeatedly) on near-sure things at 90%-99%. The max profit per bet here is between $100 and $1000, but a few of them will sum to about $2000 profit on a sure thing. If there's say 5 markets like this, that's $10,000 in profit on sure things in the last few minutes of the market being open. Clearly being already wealthy can easily lead to being wealthier.
But if we want to deal with that, I think there's a much better idea than playing with suspend times. Basically why not have the max bet on in-play markets be reduced to $1000 or even $500? This at least opens up the wagering when a new option becomes the likeliest to more of the people playing.
If, on top of this, we still feel that too much daily profit is being made on financial markets, then I'd suggest taxing the profits on in-play questions. Maybe we siphon off a quarter of the profit at cash-in or settlement time. People get the fun of playing, but we compensate for the imbalance in profit-making that these financial questions have compared to the rest of the site.
Another approach might be to not take any more bets on an option when it reaches 95% unless it subsequently drops below 95%, but that's getting a little too complex.
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Inappropriate?Hello! Maybe I'm misunderstanding things, but I think there was a rule change that said that these markets close 15 minutes before close now ... should be in the updated Rules shortly. You're still welcome to discuss though!
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Inappropriate?I like InfernalMachine's suggestion of limiting the amount of H$ which can be staked. Perhaps H$1,000 or even up to $10,000 but only once, and allowing a user to only place another stake, after he/she has cashed in their previous stake. This would prevent multiple stakes at the maximum allowable amount, which I believe is currently H$10,000.
I have about H$50,000, so there is no way I will "catch" the Hubdub leaders, and reaching the top of the net worth leaderboard is not important to me. That said, I would like to see another type of leaderboard, such as one based on the percentage of correct predictions. (e.g. number of correct predictions divided by the total number of predictions.) This could be done on an overall basis, and by individual category basis.
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Inappropriate?Tisha, I'm not sure if we decided to officially change the closing times...we've been trying the 15 minute option for the last week or so, and it seems to work fine.
@Hubdubbob . . . I understand your position...I don't have that much more myself and I've grown my assets primarily by wagers of $500-1000, usually totaling only a few thousand on any one market...sometimes covering 2 or more options.
But the BIG money guys need to be able to play larger amounts to keep 'the action' exciting for them...It's like making a successful poker player restrict his bets to $5-10 when he has thousands to bet.
Maybe additional rankings would help...I notice this week that you're racking up some really impressive %increases
MO ideas, MO ideas
I’m happy
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Inappropriate?@Bayoubear and all
I'm thinking there is a problem with the way Hubdub determines weekly % gain in H$. I believe I haven't cashed in nor settled anything since Monday, and that was for about H$2,300. So, I don't know how my gain is over 500%. Probably just don't understand how it is determined.
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Inappropriate?Earlier suspention is NOT good.
It turns the game into a lottery which is NOT predicting but is a Las Vegas and Atlantic City type of entertainment. I do not think we need exactly that.
But what is very much needed, it is far more easy loaded HD pages; especially in the last 30 or 20 minutes before the Dow closing bell, HD is loading extremely slow. One can say this is made this way for some users to lose easily and largely just when markets become intriguingly volatile.
Without the daily indices questions Hubdub will slowly and painfully die. They bring the intrigue on a regular daily basis; you may gain and you may lose. You may even lose heavily and fall from high. But on the next day you stand up again and continue to fight and try to climb. No otter type of questions and cattegory have this abbility.
And when you move up the suspention early, most part of that is gone. It's better to try to hit the winning number of the lottery.
5 minutes is a good mark for suspension.
I’m unconcerned
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I agree about the problem of slow loading of pages. It's a real problem if you want to cash-in a prediction late in the day. You have to refresh the question page, find your predictions, find the one you want to cash-in and hit the button. More often than not, by this time the prices have shifted, and if you have the "cash-in without reloading" option set, it won't let you cash-in. So you have to go through the whole process again, and sometimes again and again. The code for making predictions is clearly not designed for heavy volume or activity. -
Inappropriate?I'd originally set the 5 minute mark when setting up the question for the first time way back in February...I'd noticed that on those days when the market was teetering back and forth between two options it created a lot of excitement, and I believe it was good for Hubdub in general.
The only problem, and I see the point, is that setting a suspension time only 5 minutes before closing can give a BIG advantage to those of us who can be at our computer (and a relatively quick-moving one at that) to make those last minute adjustments...and in addition, some of those are big-money players who can drop a lot really quickly and make even more...but that is the American way, right?
I'm pretty happy with the 15 minute setting now, if for no other reasons than it does require at least a little predicative activity, and it may reduce the players who are dumping money on a sure thing. Hey, I've been guilty too.
I will always continue the daily indices questions, and I hope to be able to add to them along the way.
I’m confident
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Inappropriate?Do you remember what happened on Thursday with both Dow and Nasdaq in the last 15 min when your and most of the others indices questions were suspended?
Nasdaq felt sharply and Dow changed also suddenly. Although this happens regularly in the last moments before close, you hardly can predict in what direction this will be or how much the change would be. In the case of an early suspention this is not predicting.
On the other hand you also cannot earn big in the last moments because the percent usually is already 'spoiled' and whatever big you stake the gain is relatively insignifficant. This doesn't make a difference between the "big money" users and the rest.
You can gain only by risking - for exemple, betting early when things are not yet clear, but then you have the hope of cash in and thus preventing bigger losses - but only if the question is not yet suspended. Which is the case in the last and most active minutes with the 15 or 20 min suspension.
Off course, I do not insist on that; just my opinion: early suspention greatly reduce the pleasure of playing.
I appreciate very much your efforts on creating indices and all other questions; thank you for that.
Also, I would like other indices to be restored; they bring diversity and increase both the pleasure as the possiblities of moving on the leaderboard which is signifficant part of the Hubdub game. Reducing the indices only to two is a little bit monotone.
I’m indifferent
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Inappropriate?I'm am looking towards having some of the other markets restored, FTSE and DAX, plus possibly some from the Far East . . . I agree that having only DJIA and NASDAQ leaves something to be desired...
I’m thankful
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That would be great. It would be good to have specific markets with set closing times like for the Dow/Nasdaq. I think you might want to have a restriction on the number of in-play questions per day though, especially with the non-US markets which traditionally have had lower liquidity and participation. -
Inappropriate?you all make a lot of sense in this matter i have a go i suggest on indices factually, will the Dow open up its wrongly worded it should read will the djia open up moot point ,no factual also on NASDAQ it should read ixic open blah blah the stranger thing about it is djia refers to industrial and NASDAQ refers to composite? they both in my mind refer to composite food for thought as you may or may not know and i have to guess and the best objective is to allow only one wager, roll on other indices just do not use opening of ftse as the English stock exchange always opens on the day before price then goes on from there (just my opinion )
I’m excited
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