Being Banned for criticizing pbwiki staff???
Ok, so when is Guy Fawkes going to be let off probation?? He just happens to be one of the people I can count on to help me figure things out. I realize he occasionally is critical of pb wiki staff - but maybe you should hire him rather than ban him. My initial feelings about Satisfaction was definitely colored by the fact that he was on line, listening and had a LOT of technical skills.
I'm rather a newbie to the wiki world, don't know why pbwiki is offering everything for free, don't really understand satisfactions relationship with pbwiki, and certainly shouldn't be criticizing a group of people offering the whole thing for free - but to tell you the truth - after I finally started to get the swing of it - I began to wonder. Specifically why:
1) pbwiki does not have a front page which lists the features available
2) do not explain limitations of the website
3) would even setup a wiki in the first place that does not allow you to
a) get rid of the side bar OR add it.
b) does not have a calendar that fills the screen, can change to monthly, weekly, daily view AND have a print feature ???
c) does not have an interactive spread sheet available ??
I mean it seems like these are the basics?? are they not?? and at the very least BEFORE you get people to sign up and spend hours and hours setting up their web pages - that you should note the features and limits it has rather than AFTER the fact. - such as no we don't have that but we're considering it.
As I said, I shouldn't bite the hand that feeds me, but I understand where Fawkes was coming from.
And it's possible I have no idea what I'm talking about. That I don't truly have a perspective on the scope of the problem and that to level ANY criticism at pbwiki is rude, crude and uncalled for. I'm sorry, I don't know where that came from. I am trying to quit smoking. Do you think you could at least have EXAMPLES of web pages to show what is possible?? with a clear explanation of what is not possible. And maybe a "why you should choose our wiki over all the other wiki's"
Thanks for listening,
Sara `
I'm rather a newbie to the wiki world, don't know why pbwiki is offering everything for free, don't really understand satisfactions relationship with pbwiki, and certainly shouldn't be criticizing a group of people offering the whole thing for free - but to tell you the truth - after I finally started to get the swing of it - I began to wonder. Specifically why:
1) pbwiki does not have a front page which lists the features available
2) do not explain limitations of the website
3) would even setup a wiki in the first place that does not allow you to
a) get rid of the side bar OR add it.
b) does not have a calendar that fills the screen, can change to monthly, weekly, daily view AND have a print feature ???
c) does not have an interactive spread sheet available ??
I mean it seems like these are the basics?? are they not?? and at the very least BEFORE you get people to sign up and spend hours and hours setting up their web pages - that you should note the features and limits it has rather than AFTER the fact. - such as no we don't have that but we're considering it.
As I said, I shouldn't bite the hand that feeds me, but I understand where Fawkes was coming from.
And it's possible I have no idea what I'm talking about. That I don't truly have a perspective on the scope of the problem and that to level ANY criticism at pbwiki is rude, crude and uncalled for. I'm sorry, I don't know where that came from. I am trying to quit smoking. Do you think you could at least have EXAMPLES of web pages to show what is possible?? with a clear explanation of what is not possible. And maybe a "why you should choose our wiki over all the other wiki's"
Thanks for listening,
Sara `
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Inappropriate?Yeah.. I certainly hear you on the rather appropriately named Guy Fawkes.. Although I haven't yet figured out if his exhile is rhetorically self-imposed. His frank answers to people's questions have been incredibly valuable, as well as getting people real solutions that allow them to keep working.
As for your comments on available features.. I certainly think that transparency and clearly defined feature sets should be the top priority, its just difficult to know what information to express in a way that is a) comprehensive AND b) easily/quickly readable and digestible. Forums like this are a great way for pbwiki to get feedback as to areas where they clearly need more/better documentation for their service.
Specifically regarding calendars and spreadsheets... I think that's an excellent example of how pbwiki has become so many different things to different people. I don't think that I'd ever considered putting either of those things on my wikis (which combined have thousands of pages) and yet to others the service is close to useless without them.
I don't think that they're going to be able to put disclaimers as to what the service *isn't*, but they certainly could define the spirit of what it *is*..
At its heart, a wiki is a virtual refridgerator door and a stack of post-it notes. Fundamentally it is pages of plain typed text that you can jot things down on and share with others.. Any organization or "functionality" that you add on top of it is for the most part created through what you bring to it.
That is how pbwiki started, and has been layering additional features on top of that based on what we, the users, have been requesting most frequently or most vocally. Given what pbwiki 2.0 looks like all these years later, I'd say that they've really evolved their product in clever ways to increase productivity and functionality, and appear to be committed to continuing to grow and change the service until everybody "gets satisfaction" (as it were)... -
Inappropriate?Hi Sara,
It sounds like you have a bunch of questions and I'm happy to answer them for you.
You're right, our front page does not have a list of features. We are currently working on a redesign and I will take this as good feedback for what you want to see on our site.
If you want more information on our features, or how to use them, we offer weekly beginner webinars to introduce you to all of the PBwiki features. You can sign up or listen to a recording here: http://pbwiki.com/content/webinars
PBwiki's limitations. We're always looking for user feedback and making improvements based on your suggestions. If you would like a full screen calendar or you want it to print - please let us know! If you want to get rid of the sidebar - tell us.
(It sounds like you're working on a PBwiki 2.0 - while you can't get rid of the sidebar, you can minimize it by clicking the small arrow on the top right of your wiki page. You can edit the sidebar by clicking the edit button on the sidebar.)
We have a free service because believe that people need a quick and easy place to collaborate with others. I love that we can help the recovery effort in china (http://earthquakerelief.pbwiki.com/) or just make it easier to plan a party.
Finally, Guy Fawkes wasn't banned because he was critical of PBwiki or the PBwiki staff. We have an open forum where you can discuss, criticize or praise PBwiki as openly as you like. If you want more details of Guys departure, you can check out the get satisfaction blog post here: http://tinyurl.com/5npxy2
I agree -- Guy provided some great technical answers. So do Vu, Tim, Clif and a bunch of other people on this site. I hope you'll continue to find the answers you're looking for - if not from Guy than from one of the many other people here.
Best,
Kristine -
Inappropriate?Sara, Tim, KrissyMo: Thanks for enquiring. I wrote the blog post about Get Satisfaction's decision to ban our first user, which hopefully helps to explain what happened to the anonymous user who calls himself Guy Fawkes. I would be happy to expound a bit further if it helps, and I am always open to answering your questions, no matter what the subject may be.
Let me first say that we avoided banning the person who goes under the pseudonym of Guy Fawkes for a very long time -- as long as we could. We had numerous exchanges with him in an attempt to get him to stop harassing PBWiki employees and PBWiki customers. Some of those exchanges are in our own section of Get Satisfaction, and we have catalogued much of the content from this user, as well as the complaints from other PBWiki customers. My hope is that you do not get the impression that we took this step lightly.
As I say, we had a number of conversations and exchanges with this user. At one point, there was even a phone conversation that we hoped would prove to be fruitful, but each time he went back to the same pattern of mean-spirited dialogue. We ultimately came to the conclusion -- after many months and instances of him clearly ignoring our community guidelines -- that we had to remove his account in the interest of the greater community.
Since we removed his account last week, he keeps attempting to create multiple accounts to get around our community guidelines. I want to be clear about one thing in particular: We strongly uphold our community guidelines and the Customer-Company Pact, and we won't allow people to continually harass other members of Get Satisfaction. As you see in this conversation, he has managed to create yet another account, and I may need to remove it, and we may have to proceed with even stronger steps at blocking him.
To speak to the point about deletion of user content: I did remove posts that were created by these additional accounts, and during that process, I did remove another user's comment that was attached to these posts. This was an accident on my part, and we've changed the way our tools work so that that particular accident won't happen again. My goal isn't to sweep anything under the rug, but simply to enforce our guidelines.
I agree that some of his posts were very useful. Frankly, I'm sorry that he didn't want to stick around and use all that brainpower to help out, but we gave very clear warnings and followed our own internal steps about dealing with trolls. I believe we did as much as we could to avoid the ban, and I firmly stand behind the decision.
Please call on me if you want to know more, and, as always, you can let me know what you think. I'm always here to answer your questions, and I'll understand if you disagree with my decision, but I sincerely hope you'll end up feeling good about participating on Get Satisfaction.
I’m hoping this helps
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Inappropriate?As an additional note: I have removed this banned account's reply, so his reply is missing in this conversation. For full disclosure: I am pasting in this comment that was made to his reply:
"I went and read the blog entry... very sorry to hear that Guy.. I think you've provided some good solutions here that even the official representatives would have trouble coming up with. – Tim" -
Inappropriate?Well handled Eric.
Even though I had not encountered any posts from Mr Troll, I have witnessed first hand great harm done to forums where certain individuals have an axe to grind...what's needed then is a very big hammer!
Keep up the good work guys.
I’m thankful
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Inappropriate?Wow, that's weak. Banning a user that consistently was able to point out flaws and offer solutions because some staff got their feelings hurt? I generally found Guy Fawkes' advice in the get satisfaction forums to be practical and useful, in direct opposition to most pbwiki staff advice. Staff tended to answer by saying "e-mail us directly". Well, I wouldn't be using the forums if I wanted answers via e-mail. The reason I like wiki's is for the collaboration - the same thing I like about solving problem in forums. You've just managed to remove one of the few people that I trusted to be able to help solve problems in a way that anyone could understand and apply to their own situation. Good thing I stopped bothering with get satisfaction weeks ago anyway.
I’m irate
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Yes, he was often helpful, but he also showed a flagrant disregard for civil discourse as it suited him. He had the choice to stay and be helpful, or to continue to be inflammatory (a very different thing than honest criticism) and have his account disabled. This was repeatedly made clear to him. He chose the latter. The choice was always his.
Since then he has chosen not to express any regret for his past choices, but to amplify his unabashed contempt for our policies. We think this speaks for itself. -
Inappropriate?By the way, I just realized that there is another forum out there to help with pbwiki questions: http://pbwidget.freeforums.org/index.php. Looks like Guy Fawkes started it as a discussion of the old Widget Library which got tougher to use in V.2, but I bet the people there will answer more general questions too.
I’m registering there now!
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