greenup's dashboard

I had suggested previously that the backup functionality be integrated in Desktop Sync. There's something already running on a schedule, and has the additional benefit over a reminder of being "hands-free"; you don't have to go to the admin panel or be pestered with popups. – greenup, on September 10, 2009 15:08

oops, I missed that "Web publish" docs are backed up with the files function. As I mentioned, I haven't used Web publish. Glad that's covered anyway. – greenup, on September 10, 2009 03:31

I just re-verified, and there is still not a way to backup the image/picture data associated with a contact, or the "last modified date" (which can't even be seen, but I would have to believe is a part of your data model, since you have a sync client)

Obviously, a "restore" for contact data would be a little tricky, too, since you are prompted to figure out what group to put the people in when you import.

For Calendar items, last I heard, there was a 1MB limit issue, for which the recommended workaround was "don't use more than that. Delete old data." Has this changed?

A related question I personally asked ( http://getsatisfaction.com/airset/top... ) suggested that the backup be incorporated into Desktop Sync to reduce coding needs, and make the whole mess quite automatic and painless for the end-user. That was "...passed on to the AirSet team. We agree that a back up feature is needed" and I could "stay tuned".

One thing that was disappointing about this particular post was that Jim stated above "Great idea, Jim... I will add it to my future feature list.", when (as I pointed out/linked) this EXACT idea (as far as I can tell) has been around for at least 6 months without meaningful progress that can be seen from outside.

"...a backup functionality to have the opportunity to copy all of the webcomputers content with one klick...you take great care for the data of your users, but this is no protection against accidential deleting of content by members.
- 6 Months ago"
http://getsatisfaction.com/airset/top...

I personally haven't bothered with Airset's web publish tool, or its bookmarks/links function, but from what I have seen before in those areas, they also do not have backup/restore functions.

I understand that you have a lot of feature requests, and I am sure many of them require extensive coding. This might not even be my highest priority wish. But it is one of the reasons I quit hopefully coming to getsatisfaction every week. "maybe." "someday." "if we remember to get to it".

I just checked, this post appears "quite Grumpy", but the truth is, I have come to terms with Airset's weaknesses. Airset is a quite usable service, just as windows 3.0 was a usable operating system, and I appreciate that I am able to use it at no monetary cost, only the slight attention/screenspace cost, small cpu cost and privacy cost of the ad banner. But like windows 3.0, I'm not going to rely on it too much. And try not to take it too personally when it is rejected for not being as good as a mac in some way. ( evite / facebook / ,,,)

Great idea! The future feature list!

There doesn't even seem to be a way to completely backup a SINGLE aspect of a web computer, much less the whole thing.

RAID(or other distributed storage) is not Backup. Google it.

"greenup replied 9 months ago:
I would like to have an option in Airset Desktop Sync to do "backup to CSV". While it is gathering and comparing information with Outlook on its periodic basis, it could dump the info into a directory set aside for the purpose of these backups. (which also hopefully can be configured to have YYYYMMDD.csv style names)
...
"

"greenup replied 9 months ago:
...
You also mentioned the Wikipedia model. Thank you, you have highlighted something for me that I have been neglectful of. Backups. One reason wiki model works well is because defacements are easy to fix. All the previous versions are close at hand, so if someone scrubs a page, it takes Seconds to fix. With the old model, if someone scrubbed a group's contacts, I still had My copies. I'm sure you're going to say something about administrative permissions, but everybody gets grumpy some days, and how long will it be before someone in a position of trust violates it? Probably about as long as it takes a dot-com to go bust or change their model.
..."

ref: http://getsatisfaction.com/airset/top...
ref: http://getsatisfaction.com/airset/top...

http://getsatisfaction.com/airset/top...

"... backup that preserves accidential changes
I really would appreciate a backup functionality to have the opportunity to copy all of the webcomputers content with one klick and be able to restore parts of it or everything. I read already that you take great care for the data of your users, but this is no protection against accidential deleting of content by members.
"

http://getsatisfaction.com/airset/top...

Sorry if I sound a little negative, I have recently re-compiled my list of annoyances with Airset. It's pretty good for free, but I no longer obsess over it. It's not good enough to be a "must have", and I don't trust it enough either.

One fun thing I would like to do with contacts, but is impossible without the deep configurability I mentioned above, is a image rollover for our homeowner's association.

If I could access contact entries individually from the web page builder, with a little (okay, maybe a lot) of javascript glue, I could have an image rollover of our subdivision that would pop-up a contact entry when you mousover'd someone's house. Vaguely google mashup, but with better detail, and security. (and faces! :-) )

I understand your perspective; "there be dragons here", and not as much obvious benefit.

That said, when I suggested detailed tags for the web page composer, it wasn't really about printing, it was about some silly power user wanting more control of his data display.

ALSO, I want to plead and beg (Again) that you will find a way to get images accessible via export, preferably with an export directly to an Outlook contact that understands them, but other options like UUEncoded in the csv, or a URL in the CSV, might possibly be helpful. Of course, mostly only helpful if there's a way to push the answers back in, say, after a user clobbered things and I need to restore.

I believe there are one or two other contact fields that are not exportable, and a number that are not importable.

I like pictures. Nothing like a couple pictures to jazz things up and make a bunch of raw text personal and interesting. On those occasions that I've worked to get images into the contacts, though, I don't think that the other members of my group benefit, since the contacts view is individual, and it's challenging to drive users through to add the image column. (probably just as well, though, since I just got rid of my custom stylesheet, and you still don't have that enhancement I suggested added in, so images in the contact list are inconvenient sizes.)

If I had greater power over contact fields, I could create a nice "intranet web page" to share with the group.

Think about it.
Especially the part about exporting pictures to outlook contacts. I'm pretty sure my phone can get images out of synced outlook contacts, which is even more fun.
-greenup

Eww. For sure! Those pictures ARE small. ( I noticed when I've printed out contacts in the past, I've been using groups without pictures)
and I agree about the black bars too- frequently a waste of ink.

Sigh; REAL configurability is actually too complicated to expect; there are SO many other things that would be better to have fixed. It would be fun if we could just construct a web page with tags, and print that, but the web page composer appears to be way too limited for that

[contacts section]
This is my list of friends!
   [contact record]
      <bold> [firstname] </bold> [phonenumber] < br >
   [contact record end]
[contacts end]

This is my list of friends!
GEORGE 123-4567
FRED 321-7654
SUZIE 999-3333
...

I'd try reprocessing the "normal" stuff, but the javascript is inpenetrable.

They have pictures now? Great! when did this happen?

Jim:
Ownership of files: Afraid I don't use files right now. As I pointed out elsewhere, it is way too awkward. Is the above how you would Suggest things to work, or how they work now?

#2, Yes, yearly pricing is a no-brainer, and discounts for it are obviously right there. In fact, I'm SURE Brian wants to do this, but I was just pointing out that he has stated that he has technical difficulties delivering it at this time for some reason.

#3. $10 per month IS high. I can't justify it. I don't know many people that can. The complicated thing with pricing is the question of whether or not *5*times*as*many*people* can afford it at $2 per month, to make up. Also noting that as an Individual service at $10 each, each person could make their own choice about the ads.

Anybody thinking about pricing problems should read http://www.joelonsoftware.com/printer...
Long, but absolutely golden. – greenup, on March 26, 2009 17:58

Good brainstorming; I like the social exposition Owen started with; it really captures much of how Airset is better. Unfortunately, my mind saw a couple snags...

1. Ownership. Who owns a file? Last I checked, USERS owned their own files. An un-premium airset WC could possibly contain 10G of files, if 10 users used their allotment totally in that place. Making "groups" the owners of files under the current arrangement doesn't work, since a user can create as many groups as they want. Additionally, I don't think you can change ownership of files. I KNOW you can't change ownership of Contacts or Cal-Items, it annoys me greatly.

(1a. I seem to have forgotten how to check file usage and bandwidth; I thought it was on the members page, but not seeing it today.)

Also on Ownership, I think the administration of subgroup space limitations that Owen proposes would be tiresome, just let the subgroup share from it's parent's allotment and be done with it. If the administrators need to yell at someone to delete their files, so be it. (this, all, assuming ownership and development and many other items could be straightened out)

2. Jim's plan has as many variations as Vista. Microsoft seems to think it's a good idea, but many users get confused or annoyed when there are more than three options. Frankly, *I* was (am) confused reading his service level options. Looking again, it looks like #4 might just be #3 plus a little more disk space than you would buy with a side of #5.

Jim's plan also includes something Brian has already said is too complicated for him to do right now; yearly pricing.

3. I notice both Owen and Jim's plans seem to involve less $$$ than Airset's current plan, per GB or per user, at least the way I see the math. I know that's part of why they are suggesting, but really, they seem less than just flat-rate $10 per user per month too, forgetting the group options.

4. both of these plans will cost coding time. Probably Significant coding time. Plus documentation time. That means that users will have to be put through ANOTHER, SIGNIFICANT change in service. Better hope it gets cheaper. (oh, wait. it does.)

Owen's idea about a master group sounds neat, but I'm guessing that much extra coding is not something the team are up for right now. Hopefully they'll be able to take something interesting from these options though; They are some cool ideas.

(NB: it looks like Brian replied as I was writing, and already is thinking nice thoughts about cheaper options; GREAT! All the sooner I might be able to afford it)

I second, third, and fourth the request for decent backups, as I have mentioned since you moved to the new Airset. I do not use your files application, and likely won't for some time yet, as it currently requires a cumbersome upload/download sequence to use files there. Get WebDAV and I'll think about it. Until then it's awkward, and even as a geek I'm not willing to put up with it.

I use Airset's Contacts and Calendar, and these have really terrible backup options.
the "best" answer is to sync to Outlook on your computer, and backup that. Restoring is not very good either, as it would be either a manual process, or a "clobbering" process, and any result will have loss of data because Calendar stuff is limited to 1M, and contacts don't sync some fields like "image" to your computer. This disaster makes me Livid.

I have suggested a number of options before.
1. An option for Desktop sync to make (csv) backups when syncing.
http://getsatisfaction.com/airset/top...
2. A wiki-like answer, since this new "cloud" metaphor is supposed to be "utilizing the power of distributed updates"
http://getsatisfaction.com/airset/top...
(about 3/4 of the way down, my last comment in that thread)
(yes, it's THAT legendary thread.)
and probably various other mentions that I'm not going to search down right now.

I dearly hope that your coming release has an answer to some of these problems. – greenup, on March 26, 2009 00:25

I think a multiple licensing scheme would be an excellent idea. Maybe figure out a way to differentiate the models so it doesn't look like double-dipping. Give the users who are paying from both sides an additional small feature that applies to just that group. Try to find an enterprise-y feature so you don't have as many complaints from other users saying they want that too, but don't want to pay for having all their groups to get that feature.

That way you could have "privacy/ad-free for one group, +X" for $## or "privacy/ad-free for all an individual's groups" for $#

Not sure about what you might add there, though. – greenup, on March 25, 2009 17:38

In the case of all my groups, (web computers) the members are all people I personally interact with all the time, so gathering funds wouldn't be a problem. In fact, for the groups that this would matter most for, there is already a membership fee of some sort. (scouts, various clubs, ...) For extended family groups, it's harder to spread around. – greenup, on March 25, 2009 17:14

The Airset pricing scheme definitely can get expensive, but I think Airset's goal was generally to get groups to absorb the cost. Even when the cost is passed back to the member, the cost would probably average less than $1 per group. As for the many personal groups that some of us have, I think the airset team figured that people could adjust their usage patterns easily, and this would provide a small incentive for additional signups.

Of course, remember, not everyone is going to sign up.

Some people will be just fine with an ad bar on the side. Perhaps many. For all these freeloaders, there has to be someone, somewhere, footing the bill for the servers, bandwidth, etc. Airset's ad bar is not very intrusive, which further suggests that a LOT of people will coast for each paying member, which drives up the cost. Pricing is a very complicated art; "The worker deserves his pay".

Yes, in this case, the worker is getting to determine his own pay, but that is common in America. Look at CEO's. The Senate and the House. Independent businessmen and contractors. If both "costs", Advertising or $$$ are too expensive, FOR VALUE RECEIVED, maybe you need less value, and you should consider one of Airset's competitors.