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Owen Kelly marked one of Philipp Kewisch's replies in Mozilla as useful. Philipp Kewisch replied to the question "Sunbid 0.9: possible Task View".
Owen Kelly replied on October 12, 2009 13:14 to the question "Sunbid 0.9: possible Task View" in Mozilla:
Owen Kelly asked a question in Mozilla on October 12, 2009 08:13:
Sunbid 0.9: possible Task ViewLightning has a "task view" in which the large calendar window contains the task list and the small vertical window contains the mini-calendar and a list of upcoming events. Sunbird does not have this - the tasks are ONLY visible in the column under the mini-calendar.
I can think of two possible situtaions that might cause this:
1. The core functionality is present in both Lightning and Sunbird, but the interface elements to display the task view have not yet been put into place in Sunbird
2. Some of the core functionality has not yet been implemented in Sunbird.
If it is the former then creating a task view is essentially a matter of fiddling with the interface files, and thus something I could attempt. If it is the latter (if some of the core functionality is still missing) then it is not something I could even think of attempting.
Can someone from Mozilla please:
1. explain which of the above best describes the current situation in Sunbird 0.9;
2. tell me if an official task view is forthcoming.
3. if the lack of a task view *is* an interface issue (ie a matter of xul files) and if there is no official solution coming soon, then can you point me towards the documentation I need to start my new hobby - giving Sunbird the final piece of functionality that I personally need :)
Cheers
Owen
Owen Kelly replied on October 08, 2009 08:21 to the question "Sunbird 0.9: switching the Task List to the right" in Mozilla:
Hi,
Many thanks. Funnily enough I had already thought of altering the xul file, but the mention of css made me think that perhaps there was a less drastic way of doing it :)
Your instructions worked fine, with one proviso, and I know have exactly what I want - and (for me at least) the new layout is far more intuitive, perhaps because I amke a lot of use of the task list.
The one proviso: in step 4 above you have to add the cut code ABOVE the lines marked in the second piece of code; that is, above line 210 and not after line 211. I am noting this here just in case anyone else decides to follow along :)
All I need now is a "task view" like in Lightning (where the Tasks fill the big panel and the vertical box contains the mini-calendar and a list of coming events) and Sunbird will be perfect - and I suppose I can figure out how to do this too, if I play with the xul file long enough :)
Many many thanks.
Owen
Owen Kelly replied on October 07, 2009 12:02 to the question "Sunbird 0.9: switching the Task List to the right" in Mozilla:
Actually, I phrased my question slightly wrongly. The answer you suggested is EXACTLY what I wanted: the whole vertical box on the right. I wanted the calendar on the left and the single vertical bar (with mini-calendar and tasks) on the right.
The placement of the tasks in Lightning was something I liked. The boxes on both left and right was something I definitely didn't like. (I much prefer the tabbed approach to the mini-calendar and calendar list that Sunboird uses.)
On the other hand I have looked at the XUL file you linked to, and I am not sure how to reposition the vBox with the id "left-hand-content", which is I presume the one you are referring to.
My reading of the the xul file suggests that repositioning this vBox would also mean repositioning the splitter so that it sits on the right of the calendar and thus on the left of the repositioned task box.
Am I right?
If this is one of those cases where its "2 minutes if you know what you are doing" and "2 days if you are exploring in the dark", then I would be glad of an example css fragment, or pointers as to how to approach this.
Many many thanks
Owen
Owen Kelly replied on October 06, 2009 18:32 to the idea "We need tab view events and tasks to sunbird like the lightning addon" in Mozilla:
We definiitely need SOME way to see tasks, other than in the list on the left. Lightning gives you a Task View that is available in the main (calendar) panel, where you can see all, or most of the columns at once. This does not seem to be available in Sunbird 0.9, which is a great shame.
It is the only serious problem that I have with it. Other than that it is great :)
Owen Kelly asked a question in Mozilla on October 06, 2009 18:28:
Sunbird 0.9: switching the Task List to the rightHi,
Is it possible to switch the Task List to the right hand side using userchrome.css, or a similar method? It is personal preference but I would very much like the calendar on the left and the Task List on the right :)
Many thanks
Owen
Owen Kelly replied on August 20, 2009 19:20 to the idea "View Twitter Replies From Hellotxt" in HelloTxt:
I completely agree. I am using hellotxt to send and receive all my update/tweet things, and I have just realised that I have missed two important @owenkelly messages on Twitter because I had not actually been there.
If I have to go to the Twitter page to check if I have replies or DMs then it creates problems like: should I just go there and post in the first place?
I love hellotxt. I think it works fast and does the job. Is there also a way that it can extend itself and show me my replies and DMs?
Please :)
Owen Kelly replied on June 15, 2009 21:00 to the question "How to add a company/product to my favorits?" in Get Satisfaction:
Can I add that I think this is very, very silly.
I have 9 companies on my dashboard, and (a few months later) I wanted to add Postbox to the list. I looked around for almost an hour trying to figure out how to do it. If the only way to do it is to rate the company, then that is dopey in two ways:
1. I am at the moment thinking about using Postbox. From a distance it looks fantastic but I want to explore the existing questions and answers, maybe add a question or two of my own, BEFORE deciding whether to commit to it, at which point I will be in a position to rate it;
2. If rating a company or service is the only way to add it to my favorites, then it should say so. You should say something like "Rate the company to add it to your favorites. You can always come back and change the rating as your experience grows".
The current process is either not intuitive or (in my specific case) counter-intuitive - and it would be simple to fix. The sentence in quotes, or something similar, would make the whole process transparent.
And it goes without saying that i am only bothering to mention this at all because Get Satisfaction is a very good idea done very well. And I like it a lot :)
Cheers
Owen
A comment on the idea "Philosophy & Pricing" in AirSet:
Brian,
This sounds fine, and it gives you a solid basis to add to the separate offerings in different ways, thus in the longer term incorporating some of the other suggestions, such as the master groups, and so on.
One nit-picking point that I think will prove important when you are selling the services: can you make sure they all have two word names?
I mean something like this:
1. Airset Free
and two premium options:
2. Airset Personal
3. Airset Group
Each name is then a clear and simple brand that is easy to say, easy to remember, and says what it does.
Cheers
Owen – Owen Kelly, on March 27, 2009 09:09
Owen Kelly replied on March 26, 2009 16:47 to the idea "Philosophy & Pricing" in AirSet:
Thanks Brian, and please feel free to quote me :)
I am in two minds about the idea of keeping it simple/getting it out quickly though, because I think that, like the recent upgrade, its something you can only do once, and can't then undo.
If there is Airset Free, and some versino of Airset Personal, then you will also need to be clear and public about what the third offering is (the group-based one), who it is aimed at and what its premium advantages are.
Jim and I had somewhat different ideas about the group offering and since (from what I have gleaned here) Jim administrates a couple of very large groups, I suspect his ideas should perhaps carry more weight here than mine. Nonetheless I think we would both agree that this third option (Airset Business, Airset for Organizers, whatever) should be clear and attractive to a specific target group, at the time you launch the Personal option, or there is a danger that the Personal option will simply cause even more confusion.
Cheers
Owen
Owen Kelly replied on March 26, 2009 13:59 to the idea "Philosophy & Pricing" in AirSet:
I would like to clarify a couple of points.
1: The Airset Personal model would allow for family groups where members regard Airset differently. Family members who made Airset their main/only diary & organiser would probably happily spend $2 a month to be premium users, while family members who only used it occasionally because everyone else did would probably live with the advertisements - but everyone would get to be in the same group.
2: In the Airset for Organisers model, I do not visualise the sub-groups or child groups as having any extra storage. Rather the main group would get 25gb, and the group owner would get the option to allocating part of that allowance to each sub-group they created.
This would allow for the creation of short-term discussion/planning groups (that are insulated from the view of other members) which do not need their own storage. It would also allow for organisations that wanted to create, say, a main company group and four departmental groups, each with 5gb of storage.
If group organisers did need to exceed their 25gb allowance then they could purchase additional storage space from Airset that they could allocate between the master group and sub-groups.
Apologies for not saying this the first time :)
Owen
Owen Kelly shared an idea in AirSet on March 26, 2009 08:40:
Philosophy & PricingA few years back when I started using Airset there was a very clear difference between what it offered and what everybody else offered. This difference came from a core philosophy, and had very practical implications. It was the reason we chose Airset.
Every other online group-organising software I have come across, from Google Apps and Zoho Business to educational CMS like Blackboard and Moodle, proceeds from the same assumption. I join. I am asked to name my organisation/company, and then I become King of that company. I am the Super-Administrator, and I can appoint administrators and give them privileges. They can appoint juniors and so on. The structure is a pyramid and if anyone wants to create a new group/project/whatever, they have to ask the person above them in the hierarchy, and sometimes the request needs to go all the way up to the King at the top. This is the kind of hierarchical system that rules Medieval England.
Airset, on the other hand, more nearly modelled an ideal 18th century town. Everyone is queen of her own castle, and people join together in different overlapping groups, needing nobody else's permission. I am the head teacher in the school and I rule the school group. Jeff is the head volunteer fireman and I am a member of his group. And so on. Importantly, groups can come and go. Some of us decide to hold a summer fair. The originator oi the idea starts a temporary group. We join. The fair is held. The task is done and the group is disbanded. In this model there is no King, and groups are tools through which people come together for as long as necessary - and groups interact and overlap as needed.
These two models are very different philosophically, and have different pedagogical and practical outcomes. They have different core objects. In the first model the core object is the organisation, which has an administrator who admits members and assigns them roles. In the second model the core object is the individual who bands together with other individuals in a variety of groups that are of varying degrees of permanence. In the first model, when I leave the company I leave the Airset group, and all my relationships inside the company group are lost. In the second model, when I leave the company, I lose membership of my official work group, but retain all my other relationships.
The second model has been important to us, because our students can form their own research/workshop groups without having to ask my permission, and then share anything they want or need to share from that group to the "official" course group. This has proved flexible, popular and empowering.
Originally, as I understood it, Airset's goal was to create a personal and social organiser for people who organised in the way suggested by the second model. You joined Airset individually and then formed or joined groups: family, work, church, hockey club and so on. The tool set acknowledged this, providing non-business applications like music and photo albums. In this model paying for Airset by the group would make no sense at all. Let us call these the individual users.
On the other hand, it appears that a lot of people (maybe most people) are using Airset for some variation of the first, organisation-based, model. They probably have no need of music and photo albums, and would be quite happy to pay by the group - because their members only use one group, plus (maybe) their own personal "web computer". Let us call these the organisation users.
Brian asked the question: how can we set up payment options that will not confuse or anger people, but still take care of these two types of use? (I am paraphrasing here!) I think that there is an answer hidden in the current AIrset feature set that, with a bit of tweaking, could differentiate between these two uses, and provide the basis for the two different uses. Here is how it would work.
1. Premium individual users pay $2 per month. For this they can join or start as many groups as they like. Each group has 1gb of storage, and each member gets 1gb of personal storage. Each group can contain a mixture of free and premium members. Free members see advertisements on every page they visit in Airset. Premium members visit the same pages but see no advertisements at all.
2. Premium organisation (business?) groups cost $10 a month, which is paid by the person starting them. The group gets 25gb of storage. Each member gets 1gb of personal storage. Everybody who is invited into the group gets an advertisement-free view of Airset.
3. The master group option is only available to premium business groups. In fact every premium group IS a master group, and every group organiser can create as many child-groups as they wish, linked to the main master group. The only rule is that only members of the main group can be invited into the child-groups.
4. Master groups are tweaked so that sharing information from the master group to the child-groups is optional. This provides a new level of functionality that allows separate sub-groups to be created within a premium group. (From recent forum posts, it would enable groups to be created for two separate stage shows, assuming that everyone involved in the shows was also part of the master Theatre group.)
Airset would then have two clear offerings:
1. Airset Personal (for people who joined as individuals and formed "informal" groups, as in the original model; and
2. Airset for Organizers (for people who want to organise and maintain businesses, churches, clubs, and so on).
Does that make sense, Brian? Does it make sense to anyone else - LOL?
Cheers
Owen
A comment on the question "Combining free and premium." in AirSet:
Hi,
My reply is too long and detailed to leave here, so I am starting a new thread called Philosophy & Pricing.
Cheers
Owen – Owen Kelly, on March 26, 2009 08:37
A comment on the question "Combining free and premium." in AirSet:
Brian,
I do understand what you are saying about the pricing, and the comparisons you are making are correct. We could also migrate to Zoho Business (which IMHO has the interface AIrset ought to have - very simple & very clean - but that is another topic!), and it would cost us $10 per month per user - which is the price that it would cost us to have a premium Airset group for every 2 members :)
However, that is not quite my point, which I probably didn't make clearly enough. With the pricing being per web computer we only have 3 logical choices:
a) pay no premium fees at all and have adverts everywhere;
b) pay premium fees for all our groups and have no adverts;
c) cram all our usage into one very confusing premium group.
C won't work. B won't get past the university finance department. A will cause problems with the users. (More and more students are starting to use 3G netbooks for their mobile data needs, instead of laptops or phones.)
On the other hand, suppose there was a premium fee of $2 per user per month. Suppose this affected the user's view of everything in Airset, meaning that everything the premium user saw in Airset was advert-free, while a free user looking at the same content in the same groups would see advertisements. This payment strategy would cost us nothing at all as an organisation!
Let me explain.
Student A belongs to 8 AIrset groups, has a free account, and gets adverts everywhere. Student B belongs to the same groups, has paid for a personal premium account, and sees a clearer advert-free layout which works better on her eeePC. I say to the students "We are using Airset for organising, just like we are using Evernote for creating personal scrapbooks. Both offer free and premium services. In both cases we provide you with a free account which you can choose to upgrade yourself as and when you want to. Me, I have the premium service for both. You have a choice."
This is ALREADY what we tell them for Evernote, Remember the Milk and Box.net - which we encourage them to use. This is what I would like to be able to tell them for Airset. The upgrade fees are small enough per individual that they can afford it for the tools they deem important, and peer pressure will probably encourage them to do so.
That is what I meant to suggest. And I WOULD purchase 1 $24 per year personal account with AIrset that gave me a personal advert-free view without a moment's hesitation, just as I have premium Evernote & RTM accounts.
Owen – Owen Kelly, on March 25, 2009 07:01
Owen Kelly replied on March 24, 2009 15:53 to the question "Combining free and premium." in AirSet:
I agree with Diana - and I suspect that whether "it is doable" or not using the current sub-calendars depends on precisely what you are trying to do: on who you are trying to link with whom, and who you feel you ought to keep apart.
What made Airset special and innovative at the outset was that they provided a way for individuals who belonged to multiple groups to bring the different strands of their lives together in one place.
There are plenty of places where you can get good group software that provides a way for an organisation to coordinate its members, but Airset's individual-based approach was unique.
That's why I find it puzzling that we are now being asked to pay by the group and not by the individual, and to streamline our groups into one to save money. If we take that approach then Airset loses its USP and we are, in effect, being invited to make direct cost/benefit comparisons with the group offerings from Google and Zoho among others.
And I am not sure that is to Airset's benefit anymore than ours.
Owen
Owen Kelly replied on March 24, 2009 08:46 to the question "Combining free and premium." in AirSet:
I am also having serious problems with this new pricing system, and I think it has not been thought through clearly. Intentionally or not the new system imposes serious retrospective design decisions that cannot be dealt with by consolidating calendars in the way that is being suggested - not unless everything I know about Airset is wrong :)
AIrset offers only one "black box" which is the group/"cloud computer". Each group offers one calendar (and, as pointed out by Diana, sub-calendars are merely ways of displaying color-coded appointment), one forum, one files area, and one contact book.
Only one forum is available per group. This forum offers threads, but not topics, so each forum is effectively about one single topic: the group's activities.
At the moment my Year 1, Year 2, Year 3 and Year 4 students each belong to a separate group that acts as a black box. They only see their own calendar, although they may see classes that they are not personally attending. The forum's topic is their study activities and every thread is (one way or another) relevant to them. If they post files then, even if they post them into the wrong folder, they are (at the very least) in the right year group.
It is true that I *could* combine the four groups into one but I can guarantee that the result would be confusion, chaos, and a move to something more managable.
If there was a sub-group layer that could also act as a black box then the new system would be fine and dandy - and very cheap for us. The sub-groups would need to be invisible from each other, so that when I placed you in Subgroup A you only saw the folders, forum threads, contacts and calendar that were set to be visible to Subgroup A.
At the moment the only way to achieve this is through separate groups, preferably linked to an additional master group used (in our case) by the staff.
Diana has already made this point about needing completely separate sub-calendars above. I am saying it again because I think that it is absolutely vital if Airset wants to attract people who can build mildly complex real-world systems within a single group. (Even then, if we follow Brian's advice in the other Premium service thread about "having a custom login from a public website that goes directly to a custom intranet", we are moving well away from a web-app that you join and start using, to something more like an online programming environment that you join and start developing. - which raises a whole other set of issues about the nature of the users you are trying to attract!)
Finally, I would add that, while the new system might prove very, very cheap for certain large hierarchically flat groups (a church congregation with 500 members who all want to know everything about every aspect of church business, say), it is absurdly expensive for the kind of family groups that AIrset has previously seen as part of its users.
There is no way that I am going to spend $120 a year to keep my, my wife's and two daughters' calendars in sync - and the new advertisement panel makes the calendar unreadable on my daughters' eeePCs - especially since the teenager uses Remember The Milk in an effort to keep organised. We can do this free or much more cheaply in many other ways.
The last upgrade and the new pricing system leave me unclear as to who you are expecting to attract to Airset, and how you are expecting them to use it. You may well have a very clear answer to this, but I have yet to understand it.
Cheers
Owen
Owen Kelly replied to "Combining free and premium.", but it was removed. see the change log
Owen Kelly replied on March 12, 2009 16:20 to the question "Forum design" in AirSet:
I agree - the forums do get fuzzy fast if they are used regularly on more than a few topics.
The only way I know of to (approximately) duplicate some of this functionality is to:
1. create a forum category for each topic you want to separate;
2. use the Web Publishing tool to make a web site with one page for each topic;
3. put a forum gadget on each page, set to only display the one category;
4. make a front page for the site containing links to the topic pages;
5. point people to the web site rather than the forum itself.
This will give you some of what you want, and will at least delay the oncoming fuzziness for a while :)
Hope this helps
Owen
Owen Kelly replied on February 23, 2009 11:55 to the idea "Can we have a real "cloud computer" please :)" in AirSet:
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